Monday, April 20, 2009

TVL's WPIAL baseball rankings

It looks like Section 1-AAAA has replaced Section 3 as the best in Quad-A, at least through the first half of the 2009 season. Plus, new teams in Quad-A and Class AAA top their respective rankings.

Class AAAA
1. North Allegheny 10-1
2. Seneca Valley 7-1
3. Pine-Richland 10-2
4. Mt. Lebanon 8-3
5. Peters Township 7-3

Class AAA
1. Hopewell 11-1
2. Blackhawk 11-1
3. Trinity 8-1
4. Moon 9-1
5. Greensburg-Salem 8-0

Class AA
1. Seton-La Salle 8-0
2. Shady Side Academy 10-1
3. Bishop Canevin 5-3
4. Laurel 9-2
5. North Catholic 5-3

Class A
1. Carmichaels 9-0
2. Serra Catholic 9-1
3. Neshannock 10-2
4. Chartiers-Houston 8-2
5. California 9-4

94 comments:

Anonymous said...

Blackhawk and Greensburg Salem have the best pitching in AAA. They will be very difficult to knock out come playoff time.

Anonymous said...

I just read about Serra Catholic in the Post Gazette when did the word recruit get changed to transfer

Anonymous said...

Blackhawk seems to have been one of the most consistent teams over the past several years. Always good in American Legion as well.

Anonymous said...

Seneca Valley just had to forfeit their win against Pine Richland because their pitcher threw 16 innings in one week, and 280 pitches. It's a shame what a coach will do just to win a high school game. This was the best high school baseball game I've been to in awhile though as it went to 10 innings and down to the last at bat.

Anonymous said...

I'm not big on parent interference, but that's a case where a parent might want to step in and say something.
The kid obviously isn't going to say anything.
But that's abuse, particularly considering the weather conditions.

Anonymous said...

Major leauge teams have their pitchers on pitch counts, so should high school baseball. Counting innings is worthless since a kid can throw 40-50 pitches an innning after 7 innings he's over 200 pitches. You wonder why major league pitchers develop arm problems it's because of the abuse at younger ages, a pitch count is the only solution. Regarding that coach he should be suspended for the rest of the season then fired. He has a responsibility to maintain the safety of his players and 280 pitches in 1 game is anything but safe and he has a responsibility to follow the rules. Coaches must attend rules meetings with umpires prior to the season so he knew what he was doing and it is inexcusable.

Anonymous said...

The problem as far as injuries are concerned is not the amount of pitches thrown (within reason). It is the mechanics of the pitcher first and foremost. I can name about 3 coaches in the whole western Pa region that understand proper pitching mechanics. We do not have qualified people to teach our kids how to pitch properly. Additionally, every kid wants to throw the same kinds of pitches (Fastball, curve, slider, and so on) yet they do not consider how their arm action will dictate their ability to throw certain pitches. A lower 3/4 arm slot if more conducive to a slider, yet I still see kids putting tremendous strain on their arms attempting to throw a curve.

Anytime someone throws a baseball, there will be general wear and tear on the arm (elbow/shoulder). However, proper mechanics and an arm treatment program will give kids a much greater chance at staying healthy.

About 10 years ago I was helping to coach the Peters Twp American Legion team and a kid (I wish I could remember who and for what team) that we played against threw both games of a double-header. After game 1 I know he iced his arm and then went through a regular warmup leading into game 2. His performance didn't suffer at all and his team won both games. Not every pitcher would be able to accomplish this feat, but I will say that the young man had a good idea of how to use his entire body to pitch, so I'm not sure if there was really any difference between throwing pitch #100 and pitch #187 for him that day.

Anonymous said...

Just to clarify the kid didn't throw 280 pitches in one game, but for the whole week (130 game 1) & (150 game 2). As for the people talking about pitching mechanics and pitch counts, they are absolutely right. As a former college pitcher, and now a coach I understand this completely. What most people don't realize though is that when you throw that amount of pitches your body gets tired, your mechanics suffer, and that's when you get hurt. I know from experience having snapped my humerus while pitching. As for the coach I feel he needs to be reprimanded in some fashion. I'm sure he doesn't want to hurt to kid, but you have to put the kids safety before anything else (including winning). We are talking about kids here, and they aren't going to pull themselves. Losing a baseball game isn't the end of the world. If I was that kid's parent I would have stepped in as well seeing how he is going to play Division 1 baseball next year. It's a form of abuse, and against the rules. You can't pitch more then 14 innings in one week, and no more then 9 innings in one game. How do you not know that as a coach of a Quad A powerhouse?

Anonymous said...

North Hills also didn't know the pitching rules in the playoffs two years ago and their coach was a professional player (just like Seneca's coach). Coaches not knowing the rules is a dangerous trend.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a good pitching coach in western pa? I agree with the anon that said there are very few of them around. I've been through this with my son and we've spent many dollars trying to find a good one. The baseball facilities in the area have proven to have worthless pitching coaches.

Anonymous said...

im not trying to start the whole cm baseball thing again, but tim miller is a great pitching coach. he knows his stuff and im sure he would be willing to help anyone since he is not currently on a coaching staff. also mark mason of the wild things

Anonymous said...

Years ago players would throw almost every day. Pitchers pitched longer and more often... They had longer careers too... Explain that to me please.

Brant said...

We only hear the tales about people like Old Hoss Radbourn winning 60 games in a season and throwing close to 700 innings. We don't hear about how many pitchers in those days washed out because their arms or bodies weren't up to the strain. I believe major league pitchers are babied, with pitch counts and five-man rotations, but we should be taking better care of the youngsters.

Anonymous said...

Brant,
It has little to do with being babied. The difference between now and 50-60 years ago is that pitchers now throw with much greater velocity. A harder thrower experiences much greater force on their arm as they deliver a pitch. Over time the extra force is prone to causing breakdowns in the elbow, shoulder, and even the back.

Another factor is that in today's world pretty much everyone is strength training. We are making our muscles much larger than the good lord intended. By stretching the body to its absolute limits, we are allowing that much more force to act upon our bodies when we pitch.

Anon at 1:26am, any suggestions for how to contact either Mason or Miller?

Anonymous said...

You're right, Nolan Ryan threw like a girl...

Anonymous said...

Nolan Ryan is an exception, not the rule. Remember Matt Anderson? Mark Wohlers? Colt Griffin?

Most "flame-throwers" eventually burn out, some much sooner than others. Nolan Ryan was not only a hard thrower but he offset the force on his arm by using his lower body in a tremendously efficient manner.

Anonymous said...

Mark Wohlers: 12-year MLB career. Matt Anderson: Ruined his career by injuring his arm, not in a baseball game but in an octopus-throwing contest (yes, octopus-throwing contest). Colt Griffin: Didn't know you actually have to throw the ball over the plate once in a while.

"50-60 years ago is that pitchers now throw with much greater velocity." This old codger says, "Poppycock."

The only difference between pitching today and pitching 50-60 years ago is there were no radar guns back in the day. Guys like Bob Feller, Bob Gibson, Ewell Blackwell, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Rich Gossage threw hard no matter what standard you're using.

Anonymous said...

Tom Seaver & Nolan ryan had the best mechanics to study if you want to teach a kid how to properly pitch. The used their legs, back, & arm. Also if you read Nolan Ryan's book he never threw a slider because he felt the pitch would create strain on the arm and eventual problems.

Anonymous said...

Old codger,

I also am an old codger having been around in the times of Richie Asburn and I think you are "poppycock" if you think that the average velocity for pitchers hasn't gone up in the last 50-60 years. Sure there were flame throwers back in our youth, but there are many more of those guys today. The difference is that the guys like Gibson that threw hard in our day were meant to throw that hard. They didn't weight train, take supplements, etc. So what they had was what they had. Today, we have guys that are built to throw 88mph, but instead are throwing 95mph due to modern training techniques.

Dr. James Andrews will tell you that the amount of arm injuries in today's world is only enhanced by the velocity with which pitchers throw. I'm not saying velocity is the #1 contributor to arm injuries, but the physics behind it is undisputed.

Anonymous said...

How can a powerhouse program like Canon Mac not be in the top 5? Really, we had to hear all winter about this powerhouse team, where are they now?

Or is this just another in a very long case of overhyped underperforming Canon Mac teams????

I think we all know the answer to that question.

Anonymous said...

Please disregard the post above.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry, the Big Macs will win the rest of their games.

Anonymous said...

Please....let's not start the Can Mac baseball garbage again. Once was more than enough.

Anonymous said...

Another "overhyped underperforming" Canon-Mac team just won their section championship along with an 11th straight County Championship!
See track results in the O-R

Anonymous said...

Who ever said the first thing about canon mac is a selfish moron. I'm sorry that your blog actually talked about something else for once. Get over it and go somewhere else with that garbage.

Anonymous said...

ALL references to Canon Mac should be removed they have publicly shown their stupidity & ignorance far to many times or have a Canon Mac physco blog only so the nuts from Canon Mac have somewhere to bicker without annoying the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

What happened to talking about the rankings, pitching rules, and pitching mechanics?

Anonymous said...

Good Lord, I guess the community of Canonsburg owns this blogsite until baseball season is over. Ill come back right before football season starts...you CM people dont usually have anything to talk about during football season.

Anonymous said...

what do you mean you people

Anonymous said...

I think we now have more bloggers that bash the Canon-Mac bloggers than actual Canon-Mac bloggers lol

Anonymous said...

This started out pretty good with a discussion on pitching, pitching mechanics, old time greats, etc... but like the last time the Canon Mac goofballs ruined this. Like the other post ..... I'm gone until football season. Good job Cancer McMillan.

Anonymous said...

We're not quite at the halfway point and it seems that most sections are still well up for grabs. I'm very excited by this because it should make for some interesting section title battles along with battles for the playoffs. Is anyone bold enough to predict a Wpial Final matchup for each division yet?

mike_kovak said...

I love making predictions.

Class AAAA – North Allegheny vs. Pine-Richland

Class AAA – Trinity vs. Blackhawk

Class AA – Seton-La Salle vs. Bishop Canevin

Class A – Carmichaels vs. Chartiers-Houston

Anonymous said...

AAAA --- Mt.Lebo & NA
AAA ---- Moon & Hopewell
AA ----- Seton-LaSalle & Shadyside
A ------ Serra & Neshannock

CDR said...

AAAA - McKeesport v Albert Gallatin
AAA - Southmoreland v McGuffey
AA - Wilkinsburg v Summit Academy
A - Clairton v Aliquippa

You heard it here first

Anonymous said...

I think if Peters beats Canon-Mac tonight that we might have to start talking about them going for the 3-peat.

Anonymous said...

Who cares

Anonymous said...

3 straight wpial titles in baseball would be unprecedented. That's why people should care

Anonymous said...

What does everyone think about the new 10 game section format for the south AAAA? Tonigt Peters just locked their playoff spot. Little early in the season for that don't you think?

Anonymous said...

I know one guy that probably does not like it: Frank Zebrasky. Unless his team gets hot the Big Macs will be packing it in early this year.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Or maybe CM wouldn't have made the playoffs regardless of who was hired. I have no sides in this fight but it seems like the CM faithful are quick to blame the coach rather than considering the fact that the team just might not be that great.

Just some food for thought for some of you.

Anonymous said...

Let's stop with the Frank Zebrasky bashing. He is a great community guy, bleeds the blue and yellow, and has made tremendous strides with our young men. Wins and losses are not a true measure of a coach. The character of the individuals is the true measure and in that Frank has succeeded tremendously. He also has produced a D-1 player (Matt Pierpont) and has been able to convince high character guys like Alex Pihakis to join the team this year. So I think we all owe Frank a big round of applause because he has meant the world to our crop of players.

Anonymous said...

I'm from CM and even I'm getting a little annoyed at how each of these threads turns out the same way.

Anonymous said...

Is it just me or has this high school season been a bit of a disappointment so far this year? I just feel that with the loss of so many star players from local schools that no one has taken the torch and run with it this year (other than the big 3 at Trinity). I guess in hindsight, I never realized how cool it was to be able to watch Jordan Chocolate Truffles Jankowski, Jim E.Z. Rider, Pat the bat Gallagher, Chris Gonzo Dittmar, Chris Get er Done Douglas, Charles I'm Rick James B**** Murphy, Aaron Trudy Wiegel, Jimmie the rat Stratico, and a host of other local stars.

Anonymous said...

Don't leave out Andre "I ain't sayin shes a golddigger but she ain't messin with no broke, broke" Hayden. or Jeff "The flesh-eating" Lauterbach. Or even Mike "OchoCinco" Spartz.

Anonymous said...

I like Frank but please do not go overboard......Pierpoint was a D-1 player last year long before Frank got hired and Alex put himself before the team last year so I would not call him "high character". He bleeds blue & gold because his puppet master is the AD. For the programs longterm benefit he should step down after this care taker year so they could hire a real quality coach.

Anonymous said...

After all Peter's lost from last year's team to be 4-1 in the section at the half way point is an example of having a high quality coach that runs a high quality program. Maize may be the best coach in the WPIAL. Do not be surprised if he 3 peats this year.

Anonymous said...

Peter's has stepped up and is running with the torch they've had for the past 3 years.

Anonymous said...

AAAA coaches are indeed hired to win at most schools unless they are hired by their best friend and school AD.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Peters has definitely caught everyone by surprise, or so it would seem. Joe Maize might be doing his best job ever this year, considering he hardly had any returning veterans. It stinks that he lost in the state quarterfinals last year because the state title is all that eludes him at this point. I'd say he is a first ballot Wpial hall of famer though. Chance Peters makes the playoffs: 99%

Bethel Park has been a huge disappointment so far. Other than throttling the Baby Macs, they just have not been able to win (big game tomorrow). Chance Bethel Park makes the playoffs: 35%

Mt. Lebanon had been cruising along until this afternoon when they were upset by a suddenly red-hot USC panthers team. They have been able to get good pitching, timely hitting, and are playing solid defense. That's how you win games. Chance MTL makes the playoffs: 90%

Baldwin upset USC to open section play, but when you blow a 6 run lead against Canon-Mac, you might as well retire. That is what the Highlanders are in the process of doing. Chance of making the playoffs: 0%

USC was a sexy preseason pick amongst the local media. Well now they are living up to the hype. They have more pitching than they know what to do with and the most underrated player in the Wpial (Roberto Capriotti). Chance of making the playoffs: 99%

Canon-Mac has 1 two-game winning streak and has rotated wins and losses in the rest of their games. Not the sign of a team that is in sync and playing good ball. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Someone may need to bring a defibrillator to the games because this team needs some life injected into it. Chance of making the playoffs: 3%

So there you have it. USC, PT, and Mt. Lebo all going to the big dance. Should be a great time!

Anonymous said...

The amazing thing about AAAA section 3 is that 4 of the teams have Hall of Fame coaches!

P.T.-- Joe Maize
B.P.-- Jim Rider
USC -- Jerry Malarkey
MTL -- Pat McCloskey

It's like coaching in the SEC for football or the Big East for Basketball. Unfortunately Baldwin and Canon-McMillan have not emphasized getting a "good" coach to run their team. It has probably been 40 years since either Baldwin or Canon-Mac had a coach worth his salt.

Anonymous said...

Our coach at CM couldn't be an assistant on the freshman team of the 4 you mentioned. Like our AD who had success in AA football it proves again they aren't ready for the quality that is in AAAA coaching EVERY game.

Anonymous said...

Now that the CM bubble has burst and they've been exposed as average at best hopefully we have finally heard the last of them.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:54......it's not that CM doesn't hire them, they can't keep them. Over the years they've hired Mike DiLucia who had success at Baldwin, Scott Henson who took Ringold to the WPIAL Championship and Steve Bucci who had success everywher and at CM with a State Title. There is something wrong in that school district that they cannot keep coaches that have success at other places. CM is a cemetary for baseball coaches. I doubt they will ever get another quality coach to ever consider them again, if they do they will bury him after 2 years too.

Anonymous said...

Where are all the Canon Crazies this morning?

State title, missed playoffs next season, while PT is battling for a 3rd consecutive WPIAL title.


Absolutely hilarious.

Anonymous said...

They shot their big gun last night and will lose 3 in a row today against BP. They only have 1 pitcher which explains their record.

Anonymous said...

Canon-Mac has about 7 pitchers! They need to play defense behind them and realize that if they can get 4 or 5 innings out of the starter they will be more effective.

Anonymous said...

Toward, Boris, Hull, Roach, and Parisse are easily enough to shut down BP. If they split up the game amongst those 5, they'll win with no problem.

Anonymous said...

It's going to be tough for the Macs today since Bethel is probably going to throw Joe C. Montgomery Burns on the hill. He has been great all year and did shut C-M down in the first meeting. Hopefully the Strabane Sluggers will make an adjustment this time around.

Anonymous said...

Here's something to ponder... If you were going to retire one jersey for each of the local schools baseball programs(Peters, Canon-Mac, Washington, Trinity, and so on) who would you choose and why?

Anonymous said...

From Peters Chris Peters, Canon Mac Dave Paterra, Trinity Anson Zacour, Washington Joe Gregula

Anonymous said...

Anon at 3:20pm, do you know what numbers they wore?

Anonymous said...

Canon Mac

John Janko

Anonymous said...

Jeff Laterbach of CM has the greatest nickname ever invented....no one else comes close

Anonymous said...

Brian Muransky (#21) and Chris Dittmar (#41) should be retired. Janco was an "ok" ballplayer but he never was able to lead his team to any success.

Anonymous said...

That last comment was obviously written by a young man who has no knowledge of the history of players at Canon Mac. And yes we know they won a championship last year.

CM Alum said...

--- Anonymous said...
Toward, Boris, Hull, Roach, and Parisse are easily enough to shut down BP. If they split up the game amongst those 5, they'll win with no problem.

-------------------------------------

Sorry to continue this CM ridiculousness, but can you parents/players stop with the nonsense. The CM pitching staff (and team in general) is average at best. If you can't even win the games that Pierpont pitches, you sure aren't going to win too many. We've all had to hear about all of the "studs" and "beasts" on this team long enough. Let the results speak for themselves and stop ruining legitimate baseball conversations with this garbage.

As for the most recent topic, I honestly haven't been around long enough to have a good opinion on some of the all-time greats from the area, but I'm looking forward to hearing about some more older players.

Anonymous said...

11:52pm anon,

I think Muransky and Dittmar own at least 75% of the all-time school records for baseball between them. Just because they are "recent" players does not diminish their careers. Everyone gets 4 years and when your 4 years are up, you are on the same playing field as every other graduate. I'm anxious to know which players were better than those two.

It's a shame that the people of your district can't even agree on the all-time greats in the program. It's not Muransky and Dittmar's fault that they graduated in 07' and 08'. Yes they didn't graduate amongst the so-called greatest team ever (2005) that went nowhere or 2001 with Sidick or 2002 with Janco, but they far exceeded anything those players and groups ever did (on the high school baseball field).

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Funeral services will be held for the CM baseball season Monday afternoon at USC. Will the last one out please wake Frank up from his deep sleep through this season.

Thanks Mr. AD & Head Football Coach, you can have your Defensive Coordinator back, could we please have a real BASEBALL coach next year that actually knows something about BASEBALL.

A very frustrated CM player.

Anonymous said...

Hey Frank, in high school you do not have to play everyone 2 innings and they do not have to bat once. I know that is what you are used to but these are big boys.

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Anonymous said...

CM faithful for a team with 2 section wins and in next to last place you sure do a lot of talking & whining. Losers should be seen and NOT heard. Just go away and be quiet.

Anonymous said...

To the former head coach and his annoying posts...

"Open my eyes, show me something!"

--Coach Freeman

Anonymous said...

BARNA does that name ring a bell?

Anonymous said...

Ken Barna is retired from coaching. I do not know why his name keeps getting brought up in terms of coaching. He is not currently coaching nor does he intend to coach again. Instead of worrying about Barna, why don't we worry about Zebrasky, Cahill, and Baker and the job they have done.

Anonymous said...

Ken Barna is retired from coaching. I do not know why his name keeps getting brought up in terms of coaching. He is not currently coaching nor does he intend to coach again. Instead of worrying about Barna, why don't we worry about Zebrasky, Cahill, and Baker and the job they have done.

April 25, 2009 1:36 PM

Good idea. The job they have done is PATHETIC!!!!!

Losing players like Dittmar, Douglas, Murphy, and others a drop off was expected but they have driven this team off a cliff. To show the difference in have a top quality coach Peter's lost even more from the past 2 years and they haven't missed a beat. Their coach isn't the Defensive Coordinator on the football team and best buddy to the AD. That is the difference. Anyone that witnessed yesterday's disaster against Bethel Park saw the difference in having a quality coach like Jim Rider and the in over his head Frank Zebrasky. Mr. Football Coach/AD you did your baseball program dirty and should be ashamed of yourself.

Anonymous said...

Once again the CM baseball posters have infected what began as a friendly discussion and relegated it to their typical self absorbed garbage. Thank God you'll be officially eliminated soon so hopefully we will not have to tolerate the selfish stupidity that has infiltrated these blogs.

Anonymous said...

joe girardi is a terrible coach. The Yankees should fire him immediately!

Anonymous said...

CM Baseball number to retire:

Doug Kotar

Anonymous said...

Muransky was the most talented ball player to ever come out of canon mac and Dittmar, although not as gifted as Muransky, led his squad to a state title. He may have back problems from carrying that team all year. I personally saw him play all four games against PT last year, and he was masterful in each game. In the state playoffs, he scattered a few hits against the best hitting team in the state last year! If there was one number to retire it would def. be dittmar. It's a shame you canon mac people don't realize talent when it falls in your lap. Arguing against the two would be insane.

Anonymous said...

Dittmar carrying the baseball team? Really who are you to be saying that he carried the team? If he really carried the team to a state championship dont you think he would be somewhere else than d3 waynesburg

Anonymous said...

Whoa I think it is a testament to his heart, courage, and character that Dittmar carried a state title team on his back and ended up in division 3. Besides, Dittmar had D-1 and D-2 schools giving him plenty of looks, but he chose to go to Waynesburg to play one last time with his brother. Also, who said that division 3 was such a poor level? The overall amount of talent may not be as good as D-1 or D-2, but there are still many good players spread out across the league.

Anonymous said...

Yea plenty of schools were salavitating over Dittmar. So don't knock him just because he ended up where he did.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

He went to wanynesburg because no one else was looking at him.Coach bucci told the other coaches that he already decided to go to waynesburg, he never had a chance to get looks from other schools

April 27, 2009 1:31 PM


That is a flat out lie. Other schools did recruit him but he CHOSE Waynesburg. It really doesn't matter what level he plays at in college. Baseball scouting today is done on a global basis(Japan, Dominican, Cuba, eyc..) so no matter what level someone plays, if you are good enough you will be found.

Why do the CM faithLESS always need to make Bucci the scapegoat. After they lose today hopefully you will all go away.

Anonymous said...

We're down to the last two weeks of the season and this is shaping up to be a great year for wpial baseball fans. Every classification (A,AA,AAA,AAAA) has several teams that look like they could win it all. Also, the playoff races figure to be intense as it seems every section has at least 4 teams that are playoff worthy (only the top 3 can make it). Should be a lot of fun. The weather is gorgeous and America's past time is back in full swing baby!!!

Best of luck to all the local teams in their playoff quests!

Anonymous said...

Canon-Mac stays in the playoff hunt! Great season sweep of USC boys!! Way to prove those doubters wrong!

Anonymous said...

CM ..... you still haven't won a section game where Pierpoint wasn't the winning pitcher. He can't pitch EVERY game. It's just a matter of time before your clock strikes 12 and you turn back into a pumpkin.

Go said...

I think its kind of funny that there are 90+ comments under the boys baseball rankings and 0 for girls softball